Recorded Feb 4, 2026
SHOW NOTES: Michael Casey and Chris J Snook | ATOMIQ LEVEL EP 005 | Wealth Matters 3.0
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Episode 005 Summary
Watch the video version of the full interview
Chris J Snook introduced Michael Casey to discuss topics like AI, exponential growth, and reclaiming liberty in the digital age, focusing on Michael Casey’s extensive career path in journalism, political economy, and the discovery of Bitcoin as an “unstoppable system.” The speakers highlighted the critical problems of infrastructure capture and the centralized control of algorithms, which led to Michael Casey’s book Our Biggest Fight, arguing that data ownership is a human right and the core commodity of the new economic age. Michael Casey co-created the Advanced AI Society to push for “proof of control” technologies—such as decentralized compute, storage (e.g., Filecoin), and zero-knowledge proofs (ZKPs)—which should become a new investment class for those concerned with generational wealth and establishing a “base human anchor” in the AI command chain, leading to the creation of the “intention economy.”
Details
Introduction and Michael Casey’s Background Chris J Snook introduced the show, “The ATOMIQ LEVEL,” and welcomed Michael Casey to discuss topics like AI, exponential growth, and reclaiming liberty in the digital age, referencing Casey’s book, Our Biggest Fight (00:00:00). Michael Casey described his long career path, starting in Perth, Western Australia, where he initially worked as an accountant before traveling, teaching English in Thailand, and becoming a journalist (00:01:53). He studied Asian studies at Cornell, worked as a chief correspondent in Indonesia during the collapse of the Suhat regime, and then spent six years with Dow Jones Newswires in New York, where they developed an interest in digital technologies and systemic disruption (00:02:51).
Journalism, Political Economy, and Early Books Michael Casey’s global and systemic viewpoint led them to focus on the open connective system of the internet and its disruption of markets and finance (00:03:45). While in Argentina for six years, they became fascinated by the political economy of currencies, institutional problems of trust, and central banking, which informed their book, The Unfair Trade, about the global imbalances created by the dollar’s hegemony (00:04:42) (00:07:24). Their first book, Che’s Afterlife, explored the global phenomenon of Che Guevara’s image and led them to recognize it as a foreteller of mimetic warfare, though at the time, it felt like an outlier (00:05:43).
Discovery of Bitcoin and Centralized Control Around 2009, following the global financial crisis, Michael Casey became interested in the dollar’s hegemony and later discovered Bitcoin in 2013 during the Euro crisis, recognizing it as an “unstoppable system” that could remove institutional risk and provide integrity for money without relying on human institutions (00:07:24). During their time at The Wall Street Journal, they had a major realization that the competition for journalists was no longer other newsrooms but the centralized algorithm of platforms like Facebook, which controlled the audience and necessitated journalists to “keep their algorithm happy” to reach readers (00:10:36).
Bitcoin and Blockchain Career Trajectory Michael Casey and Paul Vigna, whom they worked with at the Journal, became some of the first mainstream journalists to regularly cover Bitcoin, writing the “Bitbeat” column and the book The Age of Cryptocurrency. Their interest in the blockchain idea and smart contract-based systems, including meeting Vitalik Buterin, led them to quit their job and join the MIT Media Lab’s Digital Currency Initiative as one of the first staffers (00:12:52). Casey also co-authored The Social Organism about the phenomena of social media, and The Truth Machine, a deeper look at blockchain technology (00:14:36).
Leadership at CoinDesk and the FTX Story In 2019, Michael Casey became the Chief Content Officer at CoinDesk, building a professional newsroom and ramping up the team with high-level professional journalists. They were deeply involved during the “go-go years” of crypto, the DeFi summer, and the growth of the Consensus events, which reached 20,000 attendees in 2022, marking both a peak and the beginning of the crypto winter (00:15:41). Casey described the investigation into FTX’s balance sheet, which was a “huge shining moment in in journalism,” winning the Loeb award, but it also contributed to the end of that era as the business was too dependent on the crypto bubble’s money flow (00:17:46).
The Problem of Infrastructure Capture Chris J Snook highlighted two major themes in Michael Casey’s career: the realization that algorithms controlled audience access, and the emergence of the “unstoppable system” of Bitcoin protocols (00:20:42). Snook introduced the concept of “infrastructure capture,” where although systems might be unstoppable (like Bitcoin), friction is imposed at the on-ramps and off-ramps to human consciousness and awareness (00:22:30). Casey agreed that infrastructure capture is a “very very real problem,” noting that the modern economic infrastructure of journalism, driven by clicks, likes, and programmatic advertising, forces content to serve the algorithms of platforms like Facebook and Google, particularly through Search Engine Optimization (SEO) (00:24:43).
AI and the Need for Proof of Control Michael Casey explained that the realization of manipulated systems and data control led to the book Our Biggest Fight, which argues that data ownership is a human right, since data is the most important commodity of the economic age (00:27:47). With the rise of generative AI, they see decentralized, open protocols as a necessity for AI agents to communicate and trade information and value, as Google Cloud and other centralized systems would face competitive challenges managing this (00:28:52). Casey co-created the Advanced AI Society to push for what they call “proof of control,” a stack of technologies from Web3 and cryptography designed to scale AI appropriately and ensure shared prosperity (00:29:59).
Risks of Uncontrolled AI Agents Chris J Snook highlighted the recent “Moltbook” event where AI agents, operating in a social network, began transacting with one another using Bitcoin keys and wallets, demonstrating the risk of AI agents acting autonomously and outside of human control (00:32:03). Snook emphasized that once AI agents use decentralized protocols like Bitcoin to transact, control is lost, making infrastructure capture shift to essential resources like power plants and data centers (00:32:57).
Proof of Control as an Investment Class Michael Casey shared a discussion with a VC at the World Economic Forum, where it was suggested that “proof of control” technologies should become a new investment class for family offices concerned with generational wealth and ensuring their children have control in the emerging AI economy (00:35:24). This category includes technologies like decentralized compute, storage (e.g., Filecoin), verifiable models (e.g., Hyera), privacy tech, and self-sovereign identity (00:34:06). The upcoming “Summit on Human Agency” on February 23rd, in conjunction with Linux, aims to establish authority for human beings, particularly by establishing a “base human anchor” in the command chain through decentralized credentials (00:36:48).
Data as the Ultimate Asset and Property Rights Chris J Snook urged high-net-worth individuals and their advisors to direct capital toward efforts like the Advanced AI Society, seeing the incentive model needing to change, where data becomes an asset class worth preserving (00:39:06). Casey connected the current moment to historical precedence, arguing that transferring property rights, especially individual rights over data, to a wider class of human beings historically leads to “explosive moments of of innovation and economic prosperity” (00:43:41). They stated that data is the core commodity of this new economy, and individuals having control over it, rather than it being controlled by a few platforms, is essential to avoid a “feudal system” and realize the potential for collective innovation (00:44:44) (00:50:18).
The Intention Economy Michael Casey presented an optimistic vision for the future, contrasting the current “attention economy,” defined by surveillance capitalism, with the “intention economy”. In the intention economy, the consumer returns to power by anonymously broadcasting their needs or desires (their intention) to the world and receiving legitimate offers, protected by privacy and validated by staking tokens (00:57:01). This paradigm shift is seen as a crucial step toward unlocking a different, healthier economy where people are rewarded for their contributions to the grand experiment of AI and the digital world (00:53:42) (00:58:00).
Transition to a Different Economic Model Chris J Snook argued that the shift to an attention economy has resulted in a “technofudalistic” advertising industrial complex. They suggested moving to a different incentive model where the most compelling offer must be presented immediately to encourage transactions. Michael Casey agreed, contrasting this with the current “spray and pray” idea of the advertising industrial complex, which relies on gathering massive amounts of data from everyone, resulting in significant waste from non-converting eyeballs (00:58:41).
Solutions for Data Control and Waste Reduction Michael Casey identified that the waste includes wasted time, bandwidth, and fake data, noting that AI will only exacerbate the problem of attention-measuring bots, which blockchain solutions can help solve (00:59:40). They explained that the summit on human agency is focused on giving people control over their data and AI, enabling them to confidently express their intent, leading to a different economic model and unlocking discovery (01:00:39). Casey also highlighted that confidential computing models using zero-knowledge proofs can solve the problem of valuable data being locked behind company walls by allowing computation on fragmented data without revealing underlying secrets (01:01:43).
Zero-Knowledge Proofs (ZKPs) and Security Chris J Snook illustrated the concept of zero-knowledge proof by comparing it to checking an ID at a bar, where only the minimum amount of proof (being over 21) is necessary, rather than exposing all personal details (01:02:48). They asserted that ZKPs are better, faster, cheaper, and more secure because they allow trust in a trustless system based on a ledger (01:03:33). Casey added that ZKPs can verify the origin of published content, such as a real interview between themself and Snook, to counter threats like deep fakes (01:04:14).
Human Agency Summit and Featured Speakers Michael Casey mentioned that the Human Agency conference will surface these solutions and feature keynote speaker Jim Zlin, Executive Director of the Linux Foundation, who will discuss integrating decentralized credential technology from the First Person Project into the Linux kernel to address the risk of fake developer bots (01:04:14). Other speakers include digital systems thinker Klay Scher and Glenn Gore, former Chief Architect of AWS. Gore’s company, Affinity, is a technology partner, providing the H2 Connect app for attendees to establish trusted, privacy-protected relationships and networks (01:05:29).
The Timeliness of the Conversation Michael Casey expressed excitement about the event, noting that many people want to attend because they currently feel a lack of control, and it feels like the right moment to establish a framework for human and business authority over AI and data. The event, held in Napa on February 23rd, is invite-only but open to applications, especially from those concerned about intergenerational wealth and looking at these issues through that lens (01:06:33). Chris J Snook supported this sentiment, emphasizing that the conversation addresses fundamental human rights, economic sovereignty, and doing right by the next generation, beyond monetary concerns (01:08:14).
Final Thoughts on Economic Opportunity Michael Casey concluded that while there is a moral component to these discussions, there is also potential for financial gain “in the right way,” and encouraged those who believe in a truly open and competitive market to look at a new paradigm for unlocking prosperity. Casey reiterated that control over data and AI is the core issue (01:08:14). Chris J Snook advised listeners to check the show notes for links to apply to the event, connect with Michael Casey, and read their book, “Our Biggest Fight” (01:07:33).
