Recorded Feb 1, 2026 (Video version available below)
ATOMIQ LEVEL SPECIAL COMPLIMENTARY BONUS
Book a complimentary 1-on-1 30-minute consult ($375) with Matt at YourTrustedPlanner.com to discuss your unique situation around trusts, kids’ protection plan, and/or will.
Episode Summary
Fact check correction-In the episode, Chris mentioned that Matt had done 2400+ trusts in his career, but this was actually mispoken inadvertantly and corrected by Meuli afterward. The firm has had 2400 clients and completed over 675 trusts since 2013.
INTRODUCTION
Chris J Snook welcomed asset protection attorney and IAR (Series 65) Matt Meuli to “The ATOMIQ LEVEL” to discuss wealth protection, focusing on Matt Meuli’s career trajectory from practicing attorney to establishing a practice concentrated on sophisticated estate planning and asset protection. Matt Meuli explained that asset protection is critical due to societal changes increasing litigation risks, stressing the importance of planning, and noted that 60-70% of people lack a current estate plan, which can result in the public court process of probate. Trusts, including self-settled spendthrift trusts (DAPTs) like those in Wyoming, were highlighted as effective for protecting assets from creditors and beneficiaries’ poor decisions, ensuring continuity during incapacity, and avoiding the public record of wills.
Details
Introduction to The ATOMIQ LEVEL Chris J Snook welcomed Matt Meuli, an asset protection attorney and RIA, to the show, “The Atomic Level,” to discuss decoding wealth matters and growing net worth and happiness. Chris J Snook was interested in Matt Meuli’s background and career path, noting that Matt Meuli had been a practicing attorney for a long time.
Early Life and Career Path Matt Meuli recounted his high school business law class where his grade was based on a system of points, or “dollars and cents,” earned through legal actions, which led to them being voted the judge for three quarters (00:01:04). Although initially resistant to becoming a lawyer, Matt Meuli pursued finance in college at the University of Wyoming and then went on to law school there, becoming a “double cowboy” (00:02:58).
Academic and Professional Background Chris J Snook shared that they were an adjunct professor at the University of Wyoming business school, noting the state’s forward-thinking laws on digital assets, IP, and banking (00:03:39). Matt Meuli also mentioned their background as a musician, playing the trumpet, and even starting law school on a marching band scholarship. Matt Meuli noted that the altitude in Wyoming at 7,200 feet above sea level affected their ability to play the horn but provided a competitive advantage in games at lower altitudes (00:04:54) (00:07:11).
Transition to Legal Career and Public Service Following law school, Matt Meuli joined the Attorney General’s office of Wyoming as the mineral tax attorney, an important role due to Wyoming’s reliance on mineral tax in the absence of income tax (00:10:13). They later became the state tax administrator for the Wyoming Department of Revenue, overseeing a large budget and staff, but this appointed position ended with a regime change (00:11:03). Feeling burned out by litigation, Matt Meuli pursued public defending and then an abbreviated teacher’s license in Colorado to help young people before they went to jail (00:11:56).
Return to Law and Establishing a Practice Matt Meuli decided to return to law, viewing it as a business, which offered significantly greater economic returns than teaching (00:12:55). They opened their own practice in Colorado in 2013, which required retaking the bar examination, 20 years after passing it the first time (00:13:45). Matt Meuli noted the bar exam’s difficulty, especially the state-specific essay portion, but successfully passed to gain both Wyoming and Colorado law licenses, which require separate continuing legal education requirements (00:14:40).
Focus on Asset Protection and Estate Planning Matt Meuli’s practice concentrates on life and legacy planning, specifically asset protection and sophisticated estate planning, including the Wyoming asset protection trusts (00:17:24). Their return to law was unexpectedly catalyzed when a colleague had a heart attack, forcing Matt Meuli to step in and handle criminal courts almost immediately (00:19:56). Initially working with a Second Amendment attorney, Matt Meuli began developing “gun trusts,” an anti-confiscation device, which was the precursor to focusing on broader asset protection trusts (00:20:53).
The Importance of Asset Protection Planning Chris J Snook framed asset protection as crucial to wealth management, emphasizing that people often lose wealth through poor planning and unforeseen external factors, rather than just bad investments (00:23:39). Matt Meuli noted a societal shift from an “empowerment” model to an “entitlement” and “envy” model, which has increased the risk of lawsuits (00:26:33). They warned that acquiring wealth, through inheritance or asset appreciation, increases one’s vulnerability, essentially making them “worth suing” (00:27:47).
Governmental Impact on Asset Risk Matt Meuli highlighted that governmental policy changes, such as the shift in required minimum distributions (RMDs) for inherited IRAs to a 10-year payout, significantly increase a creditor’s interest in those assets. Additionally, Matt Meuli cited instances where states have suddenly changed laws, allowing creditors to access retirement funds beyond means-tested limits, underscoring the need to plan ahead while “the skies are clear” (00:28:45) (00:42:42).
Identifying the Need for Estate Planning Matt Meuli reported that a high percentage of people, around 60% to 70%, either lack an estate plan or have an outdated one, which could be worse than having none at all, as state statutes will dictate property distribution (00:33:30). They emphasize that estate planning avoids the public court process of probate and allows individuals to control how their assets are distributed (00:34:22). Matt Meuli mentioned that many clients are motivated to create a plan after experiencing the difficulties of taking their own parents through probate (00:38:09).
Tailoring Trusts for Beneficiary Protection and Incentive Matt Meuli explained that trusts can be structured to protect a child’s inheritance from their creditors, predators (such as in a divorce), or their own poor decisions, even for an asset value as low as $500,000 (00:35:13). They also discussed using trusts to provide a “hand up instead of a hand out,” such as matching a beneficiary’s W2 income to incentivize work (00:39:01). Furthermore, trusts are vital for managing assets during one’s incapacity, enabling a successor trustee to manage funds for their care, especially considering the high cost of healthcare for non-Medicare covered conditions like Alzheimer’s or dementia (00:39:56) (00:41:53).
The Value of Professional Legal Guidance Chris J Snook raised the importance of the “human element” and nuanced conversation that professional advisors offer over online legal solutions (00:42:42). Matt Meuli affirmed that the true value of working with an attorney is understanding “how the trust works,” including the specific clauses needed for protection, tax implications like maintaining a step-up in basis, and continuity through younger attorneys for trust administration (00:44:40).
Self-Settled Asset Protection Trusts (DAPTs) Matt Meuli explained that a typical revocable trust becomes irrevocable (and asset-protected) upon the grantor’s death, at which point the trustee’s permission is needed to access funds (00:49:18). They then introduced self-settled spendthrift trusts (DAPTs), available in some states like Wyoming, where the grantor can also be the beneficiary without having to die, only requiring a separate trustee to be established (00:51:02).
Compliance and Risk of Half-Measures in Asset Protection Matt Meuli warned against relying on simplistic or non-compliant asset protection measures like single-member Limited Liability Companies (LLCs) in states like Colorado, where they offer no protection, though Wyoming does (00:52:11). Matt Meuli stressed the risk of “piercing the veil” if proper legal formalities, such as resolutions and annual reports, are not strictly followed, which can leave individuals exposed even with complex LLC and trust structures (00:52:59). Matt Meuli further cautioned that using a domestic asset protection trust and an LLC for an out-of-state property (like New York) might not prevent a court from issuing a judgment against the property (00:55:45).
Understanding Judgment Proofing and Jurisdiction Matt Meuli noted that the complexity of asset structures can force settlements, viewing settlement as a form of asset protection (00:56:42). Chris J Snook asked Matt Meuli to clarify the concept of being “judgment proof”—not meaning a person avoids a judgment, but rather that the judgment is “uncollectible” due to how assets are structured. The next planned topic was a comparison of Wyoming’s DAPTs versus those in other US states and offshore options like the Cook Islands (00:57:47).
Understanding “Judgment Proof” Matt Meuli explained that being “judgment proof” does not mean someone cannot get a judgment against a person, but rather that pursuing the judgment is not worth the claimant’s time (00:59:49). They provided an example where the costs associated with pursuing a judgment, such as attorney and realtor fees, would likely exceed the collectable amount after secured loans and homestead allowances are paid off, making the action financially unviable for the claimant (00:58:44). Matt Meuli also mentioned that asset protection strategies, including offshore or domestic asset protection trusts, need to be considered with all potential risks in mind (00:59:49).
Risk and Asset Protection Matt Meuli stressed the importance of clients making informed choices with “eyes wide open” about the risks associated with trusts and asset protection (01:00:48). They indicated that asset protection measures, whether a Wyoming trust or an overseas trust, serve to make assets less accessible by requiring claimants to “run through knock down doors and run through walls” to reach the money (01:01:46). Chris J Snook agreed that most high net worth individuals seek a pragmatic, multifaceted line of defense against easy interruption or confiscation of their accumulated wealth (01:02:54).
Wyoming Trust Distinction Matt Meuli highlighted a key difference between Wyoming trusts and offshore/other state trusts: the ability to separate trustee duties (01:05:10). In Wyoming, the grantor client can retain most trustee duties, such as directing investments, and does not necessarily need to move their money. A distribution committee is utilized, and the client retains the power to fire that person, offering the client more control than typically available with offshore trust arrangements (01:06:10).
Wills and Public Records Matt Meuli informed Chris J Snook that wills are public documents, which makes them a “fishing pool for opportunistic attackers” and creditors, as they can be read at the courthouse to determine who inherited money (01:16:06). Matt Meuli explained that trusts, in contrast, help to avoid probate, which is why they are often favored over wills (01:20:08). Chris J Snook acknowledged the risk of opportunistic attacks after learning that wills are public (01:16:51).
Value of Pourover Wills Matt Meuli confirmed that a simple “pourover will” is included in their trust packages and serves as a safety net (01:17:39). The function of this will is to take any assets that were accidentally or mistakenly left out of the trust’s name and “pour” them into the trust upon death, although this process still necessitates going through probate (01:18:42) (01:20:08). Matt Meuli explained that having a will is better than not having one because dying without a will (intestate) can result in an estate being split between a spouse and parents, potentially leading to co-ownership of assets like a house, which causes complex problems (01:21:02).
Importance of Kids Protection Plans and Power of Attorney Matt Meuli emphasized the critical need for a kids protection plan and powers of attorney, regardless of a person’s net worth or whether they have a trust (01:13:09) (01:15:02). They stressed that if parents of minor children die without appointing a guardian, the children may end up in child protective services or foster care until a permanent guardian is appointed by the court (01:10:20). Matt Meuli also noted that once a child turns 18, parents can no longer make healthcare or financial decisions without a power of attorney, which could lead to complications like college funds being drained if the young adult becomes incapacitated (01:11:10). Chris J Snook agreed that the kids protection plan is a crucial first step for anyone with children under 18, especially those who may not yet be ready for a full trust (01:13:09) (01:22:37).
Avoiding Incapacity Issues Matt Meuli explained that joint tenancy with rights of survivorship, while sometimes used to avoid probate, does not help during incapacity. They provided an example where an incapacitated person, without a power of attorney, would be unable to sign documents to sell a jointly owned house to pay for hospital bills. Matt Meuli reiterated that powers of attorney are essential and must be signed while the person is competent to address such situations (01:25:10).
Finding Resources Chris J Snook mentioned Matt Meuli’s contact information, including their website, yourtrustedplanner.com, and wyomingassetprotectionattorney.com, noting that Matt Meuli provides free lunch and learns and webinars on these topics (01:26:07). Matt Meuli confirmed that yourtrustedplanner.com is the best place to find information and links (01:26:58).
